The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Now I understand and I appreciate the pharmaceutical industry's ability to distribute this as medicine for those who are looking for alternatives, alternative treatments for depression and anxiety and PTSD and addiction and end of life distress. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. CHARLES STANG: So it may be worth mentioning, for those who are attending who haven't read the book, that you asked, who I can't remember her name, the woman who is in charge of the Eleusis site, whether some of the ritual vessels could be tested, only to discover-- tested for the remains of whatever they held, only to learn that those vessels had been cleaned and that no more vessels were going to be unearthed. And as a lawyer, I know what is probative and what's circumstantial evidence, and I just-- I don't see it there. That seems very believable, but there's nothing to suggest that the pharmacy or drug farm was serving Christians, or even that the potions produced were for ritual use. And I think what the pharmaceutical industry can do is help to distribute this medicine. And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. These two accuse one Gnostic teacher named Marcus-- who is himself a student of the famous theologian Valentinus-- they accuse him of dabbling in pharmacological devilry. There were formula. Certainly these early churchmen used whatever they could against the forms of Christian practice they disapproved of, especially those they categorized as Gnostic. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and improving All episodes of The Tim Ferriss Show - Chartable If they've been doing this, as you suggest, for 2,000 years, nearly, what makes you think that a few ancient historians are going to turn that aircraft carrier around? Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? In 1950, Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote " The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity " which describes the continuity from the Pagan, pre-Christian world to what would become early Christianity in the decades and centuries before Jesus Religion & Mystical Experiences, Wine . The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name "@BrianMuraresku with @DocMarkPlotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More" Please enjoy! Church of the Saints Faustina and Liberata, view from the outside with the entrance enclosure, at "Sante" place, Capo di Ponte (Italy). It pushes back the archaeology on some of this material a full 12,000 years. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. So that's something else to look into. But I want to ask you to reflect on the broader narrative that you're painting, because I've heard you speak in two ways about the significance of this work. Up until that point I really had very little knowledge of psychedelics, personal or literary or otherwise. I mean, if Burkert was happy to speculate about psychedelics, I'm not sure why Ruck got the reception that he did in 1978 with their book The Road to Eleusis. McGovern also finds wine from Egypt, for example, in 3150 BC, wine that is mixed with a number of interesting ingredients. And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. It's really quite simple, Charlie. Even a little bit before Gobekli Tepe, there was another site unearthed relatively recently in Israel, at the Rakefet cave. To this day I remain a psychedelic virgin quite proudly, and I spent the past 12 years, ever since that moment in 2007, researching what Houston Smith, perhaps one of the most influential religious historians of the 20th century, would call the best kept secret in history. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . There's some suggestive language in the pyramid texts, in the Book of the Dead and things of this nature. CHARLES STANG: My name is Charles Stang, and I'm the director of the Center for the Study of World Religions here at Harvard Divinity School. And so in some of these psychedelic trials, under the right conditions, I do see genuine religious experiences. The Wanderer | Old English Poetry Project | Rutgers University Are they rolling their eyes, or are you getting sort of secretive knowing nods of agreement? CHARLES STANG: Right. So that, actually, is the key to the immortality key. Klaus Schmidt, who was with the German Archaeological Institute, called this a sanctuary and called these T-shaped pillars representations of gods. This an absolute masterclass on why you must know your identity and goals before forming a habit, what the best systems are for habit. [1] According to this theory, older adults try to maintain this continuity of lifestyle by adapting strategies that are connected to their past experiences. A profound knowledge of visionary plants, herbs, and fungi passed from one generation to the next, ever since the Stone Age? 25:15 Dionysus and the "pagan continuity hypothesis" 30:54 Gnosticism and Early Christianity . 8 "The winds, the sea . This time around, we have a very special edition featuring Dr. Mark Plotkin and Brian C . And I want to ask you about specifically the Eleusinian mysteries, centered around the goddesses Demeter and Persephone. But Egypt seems to not really be hugely relevant to the research. This event is entitled, Psychedelics, The Ancient Religion With No Name? And so that's what motivated my search here. What, if any, was the relationship between this Greek sanctuary-- a very Greek sanctuary, by the way-- in Catalonia, to the mysteries of Eleusis? Some number of people have asked about Egypt. CHARLES STANG: All right. The whole reason I went down this rabbit hole is because they were the ones who brought this to my attention through the generosity of a scholarship to this prep school in Philadelphia to study these kinds of mysteries. Not because it's not there, because it hasn't been tested. And I offer psychedelics as one of those archaic techniques of ecstasy that seems to have been relevant and meaningful to our ancestors. And her answer was that they'd all been cleaned or treated for conservation purposes. So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. You won't find it in many places other than that. You mentioned there were lots of dead ends, and there certainly were. Like savory, wormwood, blue tansy, balm, senna, coriander, germander, mint, sage, and thyme. The Tim Ferriss Show - #535: General Stanley McChrystal Mast And the truth is that this is a project that goes well beyond ancient history, because Brian is convinced that what he has uncovered has profound implications for the future of religion, and specifically, the future of his own religion, Roman Catholicism. I expect we will find it. But this clearly involved some kind of technical know-how and the ability to concoct these things that, in order to keep them safe and efficacious, would not have been very widespread, I don't think. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. So, I mean, my biggest question behind all of this is, as a good Catholic boy, is the Eucharist. These Native American church and the UDV, both some syncretic form of Christianity. Maybe there's a spark of the divine within. And so the big question is what was happening there? Correcting Key Points in Muraresku, The Immortality Key BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. 283. In this hypothesis, both widely accepted and widely criticized,11 'American' was synonymous with 'North American'. And he found some beer and wine-- that was a bit surprising. What was being thrown into it? So let's start, then, the first act. So the basic point being, as far as we can tell, beer and wine are routinely mixed with things that we don't do today. And even Burkert, I think, calls it the most famous of the mystery rituals. It's this 22-acre site of free-standing limestone, some rising 20 feet in the air, some weighing 50 tons. That's all just fancy wordplay. . Examine the pros and cons of the continuity theory of aging, specifically in terms of how it neglects to consider social institutions or chronically ill adults. Now, Mithras is another one of these mystery religions. I'm happy to be proven wrong. Here is how I propose we are to proceed. And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. I include that line for a reason. And by the way, I'm not here trying to protect Christianity from the evidence of psychedelic use. So you were unable to test the vessels on site in Eleusis, which is what led you to, if I have this argument right, to Greek colonies around the Mediterranean. The long and short of it is, in 1978 there was no hard scientific data to prove this one way or the other. Reviewed in the United States on January 29, 2023 So why do you think psychedelics are so significant that they might usher in a new Reformation? In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . But it's not an ingested psychedelic. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm asked this question, I would say, in pretty much every interview I've done since late September. CHARLES STANG: Yeah. I'm not. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. An Exploration of Religion: An Interview with Brian Muraresku There's also this hard evidence that comes out of an archaeological site outside of Pompeii, if I have it correct. It's not to say that there isn't evidence from Alexandria or Antioch. But I do want to push back a little bit on the elevation of this particular real estate in southern Italy. If you look at Dioscorides, for example, his Materia Medica, that's written in the first century AD around the same time that the Gospels themselves are being written. Phil's Picks | Phoenix Books So what do we know about those rituals? In May of last year, researchers published what they believe is the first archaeochemical data for the use of psychoactive drugs in some form of early Judaism. CHARLES STANG: All right. This book by Brian Muraresku, attempts to answer this question by delving into the history of ancient secret religions dating back thousands of years. The Tim Ferriss Show - Transcripts There aren't any churches or basilicas, right, in the first three centuries, in this era we're calling paleo-Christianity. But what we do know about the wine of the time is that it was routinely mixed with plants and herbs and potentially fungi. So what have you learned about the Eleusinian mysteries in particular since Ruck took this up, and what has convinced you that Ruck's hypothesis holds water? BRIAN MURARESKU: Now we're cooking with grease, Dr. Stang. These were Greek-- I've seen them referred to as Greek Vikings by Peter Kingsley, Vikings who came from Ionia. I imagine there are many more potion makers around than we typically recognize. Research inside the Church of Saint Faustina and Liberata Fig 1. That's how we get to Catalonia. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion 3 days ago Plants of the Gods: S4E1. Because at my heart, I still consider myself a good Catholic boy. The pagan continuity hypothesis at the heart of this book made sense to me. Who were the Saints? Although she's open to testing, there was nothing there. Listen to #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More, an episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, easily on Podbay - the best podcast player on the web. That to live on forever and ever, to live an everlasting life is not immortality. The continuity theory of normal aging states that older adults will usually maintain the same activities, behaviors, relationships as they did in their earlier years of life. The Tim Ferriss Show - #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin Origin of the Romanians - Wikipedia Now you're a good sport, Brian. Just from reading Dioscorides and reading all the different texts, the past 12 years have absolutely transformed the way I think about wine. Now are there any other questions you wish to propose or push or-- I don't know, to push back against any of the criticisms or questions I've leveled? Thank you. Kanye West (Ye) storms off Timcast IRL show after Tim Pool pushes back I'm trying to get him to speak in the series about that. If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. Thank you. I don't think we have found it. So psychedelics or not, I think it's the cultivation of that experience, which is the actual key. Now, you could draw the obvious conclusion. CHARLES STANG: OK, great. In the afterword, you champion the fact that we stand on the cusp of a new era of psychedelics precisely because they can be synthesized and administered safely in pill form, back to The Economist article "The God Pill". No one lived there. Brian launched the instant bestseller on the Joe Rogan Experience, and has now appeared on CNN, NPR, Sirius XM, Goop-- I don't even know what that is-- and The Weekly Dish with Andrew Sullivan. Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. And when you speak in that way, what I hear you saying is there is something going on. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. When there's a clear tonal distinction, and an existing precedent for Christian modification to Pagan works, I don't see why you're resistant to the idea, and I'm curious . 32:57 Ancient languages and Brian's education . #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. You also find a Greek hearth inside this sanctuary. I mean, the honest answer is not much. Maybe I have that wrong. And for some reason, I mean, I'd read that two or three times as an undergrad and just glossed over that line. Including, all the way back to Gobekli Tepe, which is why I mentioned that when we first started chatting. Not just in Italy, but as kind of the headquarters for the Mediterranean. And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. That's staying within the field of time. BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. That they were what you call extreme beverages. What's the wine? First act is your evidence for psychedelics among the so-called pagan religions in the ancient Mediterranean and Near East. Now, I've never done them myself, but I have talked to many, many people who've had experience with psychedelics. And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. "The Jews" are not after Ye. That would require an entirely different kind of evidence. All that will be announced through our mailing list. And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. So my biggest question is, what kind of wine was it? Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. And you suspect, therefore, that it might be a placebo, and you want the real thing. From about 1500 BC to the fourth century AD, it calls to the best and brightest of not just Athens but also Rome. [2] Well, the reason I mention Hippolytus and Marcus and focus on that in my evidence is because there's evidence of the Valentinians, who influenced Marcus, in and around Rome. Now that the pagan continuity hypothesis is defended, the next task is to show that the pagan and proto-Christian ritual sacraments were, in fact, psychedelicbrews. Brian C. Muraresku - Priory Of Sion
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